Rom 16:18 For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive.
One sign of identifying false teachers and those who compromise with them is by taking a look at their company. Do they have a large amount of people they surround themselves with; hanging on and praising their every word?
Jesus said...
Luk 6:26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.
There is a false notion so prevalent today that believers are to be polite. Well of course we aren't to just go around calling people names just for the sake of calling people names. But let me say that the truth is not polite, it is CONFRONTATIONAL! Many will quote from the book of Proverbs...
Pro 18:24 A man that hath friends must shew himself friendly: and there is a friend that sticketh closer than a brother. (KJV)
This is a poor rendering of the text and many have misinterpreted what it is conveying. Other translations have actually rendered it correctly. Here is one example...
Pro 18:24 A man of many companions may come to ruin, but there is a friend who sticks closer than a brother. (ESV)
As we can see, this scripture is not teaching believers that they must be friendly with everyone but is in fact revealing that someone who is friendly even to the point of compromising truth will eventually come to destruction.
1 Cor 15:33 Do not be so deceived and misled! Evil companionships (communion, associations) corrupt and deprave good manners and morals and character. (Amplified)
In order for someone to be popular there absolutely must be some level of people pleasing and compromising going on.
Luk 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.
Part of the cost of following Jesus is being rejected as he was and standing on his truth even in the midst of opposition from everyone around you. Even Paul went through this and recorded it in his letter to Timothy....
2Ti 4:16 At my first answer no man stood with me, but all men forsook me: I pray God that it may not be laid to their charge.
The truth is not popular and we would be better off not to have anyone around us then to have a group of people who stroke our consciences by feeding our egos in not telling us the truth. True friends will tell us the truth even at the cost of that friendship. Even true friends know that truth is not to be sacrificed even for the sake of offending those most dear to us. There is an old saying that flattery will get you everywhere. The truth is that in the end, flattery will get us nowhere. Proverbs warns us to beware of the tongues of flattery; these voices are as smooth as butter but when heeded they only bring about destruction. The Bible tells us about telling the truth and true friends...
Pro 27:5 Open rebuke is better than secret love.
Pro 27:6 Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.
1 Pet 2:7 Unto you therefore which believe he is PRECIOUS: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, 8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were APPOINTED.
The builders disallow to this day. It was appointed. To to you the Elect who REALLY BELIEVE he truly is PRECIOUS. And just why is he precious? Because of what he has accomplished for us. When you know your salvation is SURE, Jesus becomes PRECIOUS to you.
APPOINTED:
5087 τίθημι [TI/QHMI] {títhēmi} \tith'-ay-mee\
a prolonged form of a primary θέω [QE/W] {théō} \theh'-o\
(which is used only as alternate in certain tenses); to place (in the widest application, literally and figuratively; properly, in a passive or horizontal posture, and thus different from 2476, which properly denotes an upright and active position, while 2749 is properly reflexive and utterly prostrate):--+ advise, appoint, bow, commit, conceive, give, X kneel down, lay (aside, down, up), make, ordain, purpose, put, set (forth), settle, sink down.
See Greek 2476.
See Greek 2749.
Same Greek word is the following verses:
1 Thess 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ
Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things.
Just as the Father APPOINTED the SON heir of all things, so those who are appointed heirs according to promise are in fact chosen by God. Just as God has not appointed us unto wrath, so are those APPOINTED to stumble at the word. This is a SURE word. JESUS is the FOUNDATION and what is FOUNDED upon him- the ROCK- will NEVER PERISH. Jesus' foundation is tried and true. Those who are founded upon him WILL ENDURE the test because Jesus already endured the test. His foundation is TRIED and TRUE.
2Ti_2:19 Nevertheless the FOUNDATION of God standeth SURE, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
Heb_6:19 Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both SURE and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil;
1Co 3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
1Co 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
1Co 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1Co 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and IT FELL NOT: for it was FOUNDED UPON THE ROCK.
Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
Jesus is elect, precious, chosen and we are elect and chosen in him. I see that Jesus being the foundation, he was already tried, and because his foundation has already been tried, it is SURE! When something is SURE, it will happen, just as salvation is sure to whom it is appointed. If you are appointed to eternal life there is NOTHING in all the world, hell or high water that can stop God's plan for you.
1Pe 2:4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
1Pe 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
1Pe 2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
He that TRULY believes on him will NEVER BE PUT TO SHAME. Those that truly believe in him will NEVER BE MOVED.
Someone on the internet posted this video recently which has now suspiciously been marked private. Are they trying to hide something? They claimed how beautiful this song was and mentioned that one should give this song a listen. They stated, "give it 30 seconds, if your not captivated, I'll be amazed."
This is a serious lesson in discerning a spirit of antichrist operating.. pay attention.. songs like these may sound beautiful but as I will show in the following comments that this is a new age counterfeit spirit and this is not of God's Holy Spirit. Seeing this song is removed there are many others on You Tube by this couple that you can see for yourself how "new age" they really are. And all of this in the "name" of Jesus Christ. Take note: these are all friends of Jason Upton, Rick Pino, and Michael Tyrell. Have they repented? No they have not! Learn to discern as you read.... This is these "so called" worship leader's Facebook page... Alberto and Kimberly Rivera Facebook fan page
Here is their mission statement... "We met in 1996 at a church in downtown Nashville, Tennesse. Alberto came from Santiago, Chile, and Kimberly had just moved from Cookeville, Tennessee. As we began our friendship, we saw that the Lord had given us the same heart of passion for the Presence of God and a common vision for the His Kingdom. When we first began to minister together, we worshiped with songs that had been previously written. However, the deeper we went in our pursuit of the Lord, we sensed Him calling us to take the risk of going beyond worshiping with familiar songs to a new and unfamiliar journey pursuing His presence through fresh, spontaneous songs. The more time we spent in worship and prayer, the more apparent it became to both of us that the Lord was calling us to more than just a friendship. As a result, we were married in August 9th of 1997. As we continued to minister, the Lord began to show us His passion for intimacy with His Bride, and we began to experience a sense of the Father's intense longing for His children to draw near to His heart. We so treasure the songs that the Lord has given us, as they came forth in live settings out of our journey of pursuing the presence of the Lord with people of the same desire to know Him more deeply. We currently reside in Franklin, Tennessee where we are a part of Grace Center church. We also do some traveling in which we demonstrate and impart what the Lord is teaching us concerning the ways of His Presence. We want to see the church saturated with the atmosphere and sound of Heaven! We believe that this generation is destined to tap into those fresh sounds and release them here on earth. We believe that when Heaven's atmosphere is experienced, we will see the manifest presence of the Lord released in greater power and miraculous demonstration. We believe that a new kind of music is coming--music of which the sole purpose is to be a conduit for God's presence! In this day and age, the main emphasis in the music industry is on the artist, the style, the craftsmanship of the songs, the musicians or the quality of the recordings. While these things are important from an earthly vantage point, they are not really all that important from an eternal perspective. We long to release music that will point to Jesus and not merely to the artists or to the music itself. We believe that "Presence" music will be the only thing that will satisfy the hunger and desperation that is intensifying in the hearts of mankind for the presence of the Lord, and will be instrumental in ushering in a revival that will sweep across the nations."This is clearly new age because they believe it is a "sound" that will change people. We know that our Bibles teach us that only Jesus Christ can change people and this takes place by the WORD of GOD.
Now if you look through their pictures in their "fun" album and you are not familiar with who their associations are I will name a few....
Georgian Banov who is part of "drunkenness" anointing of John Crowder heresies.. They have done conferences together.
Oh look there in the center is Michael Tyrell who is a so called "worship" leader and musician. He is a worship mentor to Rick Pino and is close friends with Jason Upton. I have been in conversations with him and he refuses to listen to the truth.
Here is a video of Michael telling his story of an "angel" and how they got whacked "in the spirit."
Here is Upton who claims to have an angel singing with him on his music....this is NOT an angel of God...
There also is a man from South America in the video below who had this same "angelic" occurrence in his music. These are counterfeit manifestations. They are demons masquerading as "angels of light."
On the left in this next picture you will notice the false prophet Joshua Mills. He is known for manifesting lying signs and wonders including dripping oil from his hands and gold dust. This man is a sorcerer.
In this picture you can see Joshua Mills in the back of their limo.
Here is a video of Alberto and Kimberly being interviewed on Steve Shultz' Elijah List prophetic t.v. Take note that many of these who defend these false teachers claim to have no associations with the Elijah list yet they follow those who appear on the Elijah List prophetic t.v. show. I mean HELLO!!!!
Here they are on none other than the 700 club! If any of these folks represent God, where is their discernment? There are many more videos to be found of these types of things on the internet and YouTube. If you desire truth and do not want to promote error, do some research. Be a Berean like those in the book of Acts! Take some responsibility!
I stumbled upon another picture in their "fun" folder. It is JoAnn Mcfatter standing next to Kimberly. JoAnn is a witch and uses divination regularly. She is also in the video above with Michael Tyrell talking about the "angel." If you read the comments on this picture on their Facebook page, someone makes a comment that there is an angel standing behind her. It looks like devil horns to me.
The following link is Joann's website and reveals that she is currently associated with WhiteDove ministries which is founded by Paul Keith Davis and Bob Jones... Joannmcfatter.com
This next picture is none other than Julie Meyer who has prophesied a tremendous amount of lies like the rest in the above comment posts. She has been a worship leader to IHOP and several other movements.
All of these so called "leaders" in the charismatic movement are just a drop in the bucket to the many evil associations and false prophets going on today. What I have shown in this blog should be more than enough to make anyone who is REALLY seeking truth to take a step back, question and ask God why they all fellowship like one big club? Yet, there is never any true Biblical correction, just the spreading of "words" year after year; false promises that never come to fruition.
1 Corinthians 15:33
New American Standard Bible Do not be deceived: "Bad company corrupts good morals." King James Bible Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.
Here is another example of how this is made to "look" like the Holy Spirit but is in fact a counterfeit spirit. I do believe in the true prophetic song of the Lord and this is not it. This is witchcraft.
Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Heb 1:2a Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his SON......
Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
Eph 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 For theperfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Eph 4:13 TILL we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Eph 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
Has the true body of Christ come into the unity of the faith? God gives the body of Christ the gifts of the Son- JESUS CHRIST, to teach, edify and equip the body of Christ. Jesus was all of those gifts listed in Ephesians 4:11.
Apostle: Heb 3:1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;
Prophet: Luk 24:19 And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people:
Evangelist: Mar 1:14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
Pastor: Heb 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
Teacher: Joh 3:2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
And we see by Ephesians 4:8, Jesus gives these gifts unto the body. Jesus gives these what many refer to as "offices" for the body of Christ's benefit. How is it that so many churches accept pastors, evangelists and teachers, but do not accept apostles and prophets? Do we realize that those who are rejecting these two are in fact rejecting a part of Jesus?
Eph 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
Eph 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
Eph 3:3 How that by REVELATION he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
Eph 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
Eph 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is NOW REVEALED unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
Gal 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
Gal 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the REVELATION of Jesus Christ.
1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
God still has men and women who teach but it is only the anointing of the Holy Spirit that imparts and adds truth...
Gal 2:6 But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man's person:) for they who seemed to be somewhat in conference added nothing to me:
Only true men and women of God can add anything to the true body of Christ.
The church makes known the wisdom of God to principalities and powers......
Eph 3:10 To the intent that NOW unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
1Pe 1:10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
1Pe 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
1Pe 1:12 Unto whom it was REVEALED, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels DESIRE TO LOOK INTO.
Stay tuned for my next blog as I would like to show the roles of each of the five offices in the body of Christ.
Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannotbring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
I believe the fruits Jesus was referring to in Matthew chapter 7:20 when he said, "you will know them by their fruits" is not necessarily pertaining to the fruit of the Spirit listed in Galatians chapter 5:22-23. Notice it is FRUIT of the Spirit and not FRUITS. Also, the reason I say this is because any true believer could show a lack of the fruit listed in Galatians on any given day .... love, joy, peace, longsuffering, etc. When believers in Jesus Christ are not demonstrating these fruits, would this make them false? Of course not. And as we can see when reading the words of Jesus, the fruits of false prophets is pertaining to a different type of fruit than those mentioned above. Many will refer to that fruit listed in Galatians but Jesus makes a distinction. I do believe that in this present hour it is addressing professing "seasoned" believers' fruit revealed in whether they have fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness. Do they practice unrighteousness? Do they have fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness?
Eph 5:7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them. Eph 5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: Eph 5:9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;) Eph 5:10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. Eph 5:12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
Take Bill Johnson from Bethel church in Redding, CA, for example. He will give "lip service" to the truth that Jesus died on the cross and other foundational Biblical truths. But what is his fruit? Does he love righteousness and hate iniquity as Jesus did? No, he does not. He defends the adulterous ministers like Todd Bentley and lies to many people. Bill defends the sin of Bentley. Bill cares more about power and so called gifting then he cares about the pain of those who suffer from adultery. Many ask where is the love? Why can't you forgive Todd Bentley? No one seems to ask where is the love for his wife and children. Todd is still in adultery. Bill Johnson is an example of bad fruit and as we are seeing in these times, there are many just like him. Another example is Mike Bickle who will give "lip service" to the truth out of one side of his mouth then out of the other he goes and has fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness. Just that very same year that news came out about Todd, Mike Bickle went and spoke at Morningstar giving praise to his "good friend" as he called him, and might I add false prophet, Bob Jones. So we see the hypocrisy. They may speak some truth but they do not live the truth. Much can be said on the countless leaders in the modern evangelical churches who seem to teach some truth from their pulpits and then turn around and deny that truth by their lifestyles. These I refer to will often parrot truth regarding avoiding false prophets while continuing in fellowship with false prophets. I suppose they are false prophets as well. They will attend conference after conference, rubbing shoulders with them. They do not obey the scriptures command to, "Come out and be separate." They will not obey Jesus Christ by practicing the doctrine of Biblical separation. They will continue to make excuses for their actions and twist the scriptures to justify their wicked associations. Jesus calls these I am speaking of as ,"workers of iniquity." Not everyone who says ,"Lord, Lord" will enter the kingdom." ~ Matthew 7:21 Those who compromise with the harlot church make themselves one with her and will receive of her judgments in full measure. (Revelation 18:4-5)
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
So we can clearly see the fruit is doing righteousness. Either the tree has bad fruit or it has good fruit. It cannot have both.
Mat 12:33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit. Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
We can now find greater understanding of this verse....
Tit 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
I also believe then that we can conclude fruit is our works. But if the works are simply feeding the poor, then we can say even Ghandi had good fruit. So we see it is not the case....
1Co 13:3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
Obviously, Paul said he could do great "charitable" deeds and if he had not love he was nothing. And what is included in love?...
1Co 13:6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.Heb 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
It certainly goes deeper and cuts to the heart and the word of God is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. (See Hebrews 4:12)
Jesus tries the reins (the wills; hearts)...
Jer_17:10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.
Jer_21:14a But I will punish you according to the fruit of your doings, saith the LORD
Rev_2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
Jesus goes on in his letters to the churches that he will reward each one of us according to our works. I do believe works may very well be fruits.
It truly is my service to God's people to share what he has laid on my heart. God bless you.
Joh 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. Joh 15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. Joh 15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. Joh 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. Joh 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. Joh 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. Joh 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. Joh 15:8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
Even satan has ministers who are transformed into "ministers of righteousness" who parrot truth. True believers discern by the Holy Spirit. I look at fruit as Jesus instructed me in his word. The fruit is not the fruits of the Holy Spirit listed in Galatians 5. If these were the standard of fruit we would all look like goats on any given day. What is the fruit? Jesus tells us what the fruit is.....
Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
I believe very strongly that the fruit is associations amongst those who "profess" to know God. I believe the fruit is whether a person has fellowship with evil works or not. Consider Bill Johnson. Many would say he has good fruit. He seems to have love and joy. Does he not? Well my friends even Ghandi seemed to have the same. Even the antichrist will appear loving. Love is not judged by the standard of men but by God. Love is loving righteousness- what is right- because of Jesus and hating evil.
Heb 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
But you see Bill Johnson reveals his fruit by fellowshipping with adulterous "ministers" and not standing against adultery. What adultery? Todd Bentley's adultery, lies and sorceries. I am using this as an example but it is everywhere today even in our own midst. We must remove it from our own midst. This is no joke!
To have fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness is to make ourselves a partaker....
Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
Eph 5:7 Be not ye therefore PARTAKERS with them.
Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
Eph 5:12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
Eph 5:13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.
I believe the above verses in Ephesians can most certainly apply to those "in our midst" who "profess" to know God.
Tit 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
1Co 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
1Co 5:10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
1Co 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
1Co 5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
1Co 5:13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore PUT AWAY FROM AMONG YOURSELVES THAT WICKED PERSON.
2Jn 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
2Jn 1:11 For he that biddeth him God speed is PARTAKER of his evil deeds.
Rom 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
So we see in the previous verses that many profess to know him but he never knew them because they are workers of iniquity. This is the fruit- not being friends with workers of iniquity in the "churches" and amongst those who call themselves brethren.
Come out from among them!
2Co 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what FELLOWSHIP hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
2Co 6:15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
2Co 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
2Co 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
2Co 6:18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
Exo_23:32 Thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor with their gods.
Deu_7:2 And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them:
Plagues are coming. Is your house in order? Is your life founded upon the rock Jesus Christ?
Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not PARTAKERS of her sins, and that ye receive not of her PLAGUES.
Rev 18:5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities. PARTAKERS WILL RECEIVE OF HER PLAGUES! GOD IS SAYING COME OUT!!!!
Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
Mat 7:28 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:
Mat 7:29 For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.
A collection of notes from discussions and posts. Please excuse the grammar errors as I am very busy and will correct this when time allows. Some of this is taken from a debate with a man named Robert. I will be updating with more as time progresses:
The goal of these notes is to discover the truth about whether the teaching of the pre-tribulational rapture of the church of Jesus Christ is in fact Biblical or not. My goal is to make this as simplistic as possible so that it is easily understood. From movies to books, there has been much confusion sown from the enemy to distort this very plain teaching of Jesus Christ. Surely, God would want his people to be taught plainly without straining over complicated words and to make the truth of the scripture known to those who have his Holy Spirit. Eschatology is a term you will often hear and it simply means the study of the end times. The end of the world is not in fact the end of everything but a beginning for those who know Jesus Christ as their Lord and savior. Jesus called it the end of the age, being the end of this present time frame. Jesus did promise us that after he went back to the Father on the day of Pentecost in Acts chapter 2, that he would send the Holy Spirit and that His Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth, would lead us and guide us into all truth. God certainly desires that believers understand and be fully persuaded as to what the scriptures teach regarding this matter.
I am sure most who read this are already familiar with the teaching of the pre-trib rapture of the church. If not, here is a brief explanation. The teaching of the pre-trib rapture of the church is the teaching that believers in Jesus Christ will be "secretly" snatched away from the earth before a 7 year period known as the tribulation, or great tribulation, and taken away with Jesus back to heaven to later return after the 7 years are finished. Those who aren’t ready for Jesus when he comes will be “left behind” to endure the tribulation and faced with the decision to either accept or reject the mark of the beast in their hand or forehead.(See Revelation 13:16-18) The teaching of the secret rapture of the church was never taught by Jesus or John who wrote the book of Revelation. In fact, in Matthew 24 Jesus plainly says that he will not return until after the tribulation of those days.
Mat 24:29 Immediately AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And THEN shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
As we will see further when scriptures are taken in their whole context, rather than manipulated by the interpretations of men, that they do in fact flow beautifully together. John plainly says in Revelation 1:7
Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
The previous verses from Matthew 24 and Revelation chapter 1 reveal to us that when Jesus comes back in his glory, EVERY EYE will SEE HIM and even those who pierced him (crucified him), and all the earth will wail because of him .
The teaching of the secret rapture of the church was never believed by the early apostles who wrote the New Testament scriptures nor is it found in the Old Testament. This teaching was readily received into the church from what is known as the doctrine of dispensationalism. Dispensationalism crept into the church in the 1800s and was promoted by John Nelson Darby and Cyrus Ingerson Scofield. While this is factual, others have claimed that this doctrine was introduced by a prophetic utterance from a young woman from Scotland named Margaret MacDonald. Regardless of where it came from it is absolutely not taught in scripture.
There is in fact a "catching up" of living believers in the scripture and this clearly takes place at the COMING of Jesus Christ, when he returns physically to earth to set up his kingdom. There are variations of this teaching known as pre-trib, mid-trib, post-trib, and pre-wrath. As we will discover further in this debate, the holy scriptures never teach a secret catching away (rapture) of the church BEFORE what is known as the Great Tribulation of antichrist. The great tribulation is known as the 70th week of Daniel and can be found in the 9th chapter of Daniel verses 24 thru 27.
One of the major misunderstandings regarding the great tribulation is that many Bible teachers today misunderstand what the great tribulation is. It is presently taught that the tribulation period is the wrath of God and as we will find in this debate, the tribulation period is not ALL the wrath of God. There is the wrath of satan spoken of in Revelation 12:12 wherein we read, “the devil has come down unto you having great WRATH.” As you read further down in the chapter, you find that the devil, (the dragon and that old serpent), persecutes the saints. Then we later see the wrath of God which is FILLED UP in the vials/bowl judgments spoken of in the book of Revelation chapter 16.
Rev 15:1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them FILLED UP THE WRATH OF GOD.
Rev 16:1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
The word rapture is not found in the scriptures but the word RESURRECTION is. The idea of the “rapture” is found in the book of 1 Thessalonians chapter 4 verses 13 thru 18. Let us read them….
1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the COMING of the Lord shall not prevent (be before) them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall DESCEND from heaven with a shout, with the VOICE of the archangel, and with the TRUMP of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 THEN we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words. (emphasis mine)
One of the first things we find in reading this passage is in verse 15. Paul states that those who are alive until the COMING of the Lord will not be before those who have died. It is important to note that this is a RESURRECTION and it occurs FIRST. (See also Rev 20:4-6 for FIRST RESURRECTION) As we see Paul says, "THEN WE WHICH ARE ALIVE WILL BE CAUGHT UP.” According to the pre-trib teaching, believers just “disappear” off of the earth and those who are on the earth never see them taken up. Just a point I would like to make. If dead bodies are rising out of the graves, do we not think that every eye will witness this event? As Jesus said when he comes, “EVERY EYE WILL SEE HIM.” It is also important for me to state here that verse 16 clearly says that the Lord will DESCEND from heaven with the VOICE of the archangel, with a SHOUT, and with the TRUMP (trumpet) of God. Paul also addressed this as the LAST TRUMPET as we will see further on.
John also recorded this event in Revelation 10:7 while he was on the Island of Patmos,..
Rev 10:7 But in the days of the VOICE of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
I couldn’t help notice that Robert addressed 1 Corinthians 15 and the mystery Paul wrote of. Robert taught that Paul’s mention of a “twinkling of an eye” teaches that believers will be “snatched out” at any moment. Let us read them,
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a MYSTERY; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be CHANGED,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the TWINKLING of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the DEAD SHALL BE RAISED incorruptible, and WE SHALL BE CHANGED.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
It is obvious by Paul’s words that the mystery is not believers being “raptured” out from the earth but the RESURRECTION of believers’ bodies (BEING CHANGED) at the COMING of the Lord Jesus Christ. As we see previously in the chapter….
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at HIS COMING. (NOTE: There are no two separate comings of Jesus Christ)
Paul is teaching believers about the mystery of us being CHANGED from mortal bodies to eternal immortal bodies.
As we proceed in the debate we are going to look at the book of 2 Thessalonians chapter 2. One of the major points I want to show and prove is that there is no such teaching of the imminence- (can happen at any moment)- of the second coming of Jesus Christ taught anywhere in scripture. In fact Jesus, as well as Paul taught us that things must FIRST take place and scriptures have yet to be FULFILLED before Jesus will even return. I will also like to address the teaching of what is referred to as the “ LEFT-BEHIND” teaching which I will prove with only one scripture that this teaching is in fact a gross perversion of the precious word of God. So.... grab a Bible and read along. We will do our best as God’s servants to accurately handle and rightly divide the word of truth. 2 Timothy 2:15
Anyone who thinks believers are getting raptured before the wrath of God, can you answer this question? Why are Jesus' words in red in the middle of the 6th bowl?..... Rev 16:15Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. You see just like Noah, God will preserve his people, even in the midst of his wrath being poured out. Remember Psalm 91? It speaks of plagues and pestilence. It states, "a thousand shall fall at your side and ten thousand at your right hand, but it will not come near to you." We must understand that Christ's word in Revelation 16 are in the MIDDLE of the FULL MEASURE of HIS WRATH being poured out on the earth. We have 7 seals, then 7 angels blowing 7 trumpets, and then 7 bowls or VIALS of WRATH. Rev 15:1And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is FILLED UP the WRATH of God. Rev 16:1And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the VIALS OF WRATH of God upon the earth. Now we see why Jesus said this....... Luk 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; Luk 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Luk 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. Luk 17:31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. Luk 17:32 REMEMBER LOT'S WIFE. Luk 17:33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. Is not God capable of preserving his people while wrath is present on earth? Does he not preserve his people today? Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
We do not know the exact day nor hour but we will know the season.
1Th 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you....
1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. 1Th 5:4 BUT ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
We should know by scripture that Jesus' second coming is at the end when he comes in HIS glory and cuts the great tribulation short.....
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.. .....
2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
with his glorious appearing when every eye sees him......
Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
and at his coming the dead rise FIRST.....
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we that are alive, that are left unto the coming of the Lord, shall in no wise precede them that are fallen asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:........
Which is the first resurrection.....
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
It is at this resurrection that we are changed in a twinkling of an eye. Many teach that the rapture takes place as a "twinkling" of an eye which is not so..... It is in fact believers being changed having been given their glorified bodies....
1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.......
at the Last trumpet which is the 7th......
Rev 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
There is a teaching so ingrained in most that Jesus can return at the next moment. According to scripture there is no such thing as an imminent second coming of Christ. Why? Scripture must first be fulfilled and because scripture must first be fulfilled Jesus WILL NOT return until all has been fulfilled.........
Two things in which one is beginning to come to pass before our very eyes.....
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
We are left with one problem... If the resurrection takes place at the 7th trumpet then why in the middle of the 6th bowl, (which are after the trumpets), does Jesus say this?.....(Most Bibles have the words of Christ in red)....
Rev 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. Rev 16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon. Rev 16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial (bowl) into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
The bowls are the outpouring of God's wrath in full measure..
Rev 15:1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.
Rev 15:7 And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever.
Rev 16:1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
The answer is simple. The 7 trumpets which are blown before the vials are an actual triggerof the vials. While in between the seals and trumpets, there is some matter of time, when the vials are poured out- they are simultaneous! I believe Jesus keeps his own in a sphere of protection. Is he not able to do this? He kept and preserved Noah in the ark. The ark is a type of Christ in which those who are in Christ will be kept safe from the wrath of God.
Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will KEEP thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
The Greek word for KEEP is tereso ek which is being kept through not taken out of. It is the same Greek word Jesus used here as well....
Joh 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest KEEP them from the evil.
Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, Mat 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Mat 24:41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Taken where?........
Mat 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 13:24 Another parable set he before them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man that sowed good seed in his field:
Mat 13:25 but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares also among the wheat, and went away.
Mat 13:26 But when the blade sprang up and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
Mat 13:27 And the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst thou not sow good seed in thy field? whence then hath it tares?
Mat 13:28 And he said unto them, An enemy hath done this. And the servants say unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
Mat 13:29 But he saith, Nay; lest haply while ye gather up the tares, ye root up the wheat with them.
Mat 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather up first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them; but gather the wheat into my barn.
Mat 13:36 Then he left the multitudes, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Explain unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
Mat 13:37 And he answered and said, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
Mat 13:38 and the field is the world; and the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; and the tares are the sons of the evil one;
Mat 13:39 and the enemy that sowed them is the devil: and the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are angels.
Mat 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered up and burned with fire; so shall it be in the end of the world.
Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that cause stumbling, and them that do iniquity,
Mat 13:42 and shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be the weeping and the gnashing of teeth.
Mat 13:43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He that hath ears, let him hear.
Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince who standeth for the children of thy people; and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Dan 12:3 And they that are wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.
It is important to add that it will be destruction that will take them away while the righteous are left.
1Th 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
Psa 1:4 The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away. Psa 1:5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.
Below are two videos that you should watch regarding this topic. I am not very eloquent but I just try to tell the truth as best as I can:
